# CCIP-027 – Comments with Negative Karma Should NOT Get 2x Multiplier

# Problem:

[CCIP-001]( was a governance poll that passed over a year ago and resulted in doubling the karma earned by comments relative to posts. However a consequence of this poll is that comments with negative karma also receive the 2x multiplier.

For example, currently a comment that gets downvoted to -3 karma would count as -6 towards the Moons distribution.

This was likely not the intended effect and users already often express hesitance to voice controversial opinions due to fear of being downvoted. Having this multiplier for negative karma only adds to this issue.

# Solution:

This proposal would prevent comments with negative Karma at the time of the snapshot from getting the 2x multiplier.

Mathematically this could be calculated as:

**final\_comment\_karma = Max(comment\_karma, 2\*comment\_karma)**

To be clear, this proposal doesn’t change the impact of downvotes on comments that have positive karma. For instance, a comment with 10 karma that gets downvoted to 9 would end up with 18 karma instead of 20 (as intended, so that last downvote still “counts 2x”). The proposal is only for comments that *end up* with negative karma.

# Examples (if proposal passes):

* A comment that gets -3 karma would count as -3 towards the Moons distribution
* A comment that gets +3 karma would **still** count as +6 towards the Moons distribution

# Pros/Cons

* Pro: Controversial opinions will be less penalized in comments
* Pro: Mass-downvote actions will be less impactful
* Con: Rewards for comment karma might be too high already
* Con: Some comments with negative karma are low-quality and deserve 2x multiplier

[View Poll](

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### 43 thoughts on “CCIP-027 – Comments with Negative Karma Should NOT Get 2x Multiplier”

1. The only reason I’m considering not voting yes for this is because I would rather see a poll that completely removes negative karma. The lowest a comment should affect your karma score should be zero. It just encourages an echo chamber if there’s a chance of losing moons. Debating people becomes costly because you know the person who disagrees with you will downvote you.

I’ve also seen situations on the daily discussion where every single comment is sitting at -2, even the most mundane comments, so its very clear someone is just downvoting everyone. It’s ridiculous.

I’ve deleted comments that I stand behind 100% because morons were downvoting me for having an opinion that goes against the majority. Do I think I was right? Absofuckinglutely. Am I going to lose money to stand by my opinion? Not a fucking chance.

Is it too late to submit a proposal for this round? I’ll fucking do it.

2. I would propose negative karma doesn’t count at all towards the contribution:

Final_contribution = max(0, 2*comment_karma)

3. I always thought that negative comments were a straight zero for the purposes of moon calculations, not ***negative***. Is this really the case?

It is then this is the easiest yes vote I’ve ever made.

4. Agreed. We should encourage diverse viewpoints on all subjects here, don’t make people afraid to go against the crowd with a comment.

We don’t need echo chambers.

5. We take a -2x multiplier for negative comments? It’s no wonder the echo chamber rages on

6. well written OP, you are very eloquent

7. Wow easy yes. Great job explaining the problem and solution.

8. The influence of users who go through and downvote everyone needs to be diminished

9. It just got a little bit safer to criticize Solana and Crypto.com.

10. Honestly had no idea negative karma comments meant you were losing that amount of moons, yet alone 2x that negative number. It’s no wonder you see so many deleted comments as soon as they get 1-2 downvotes lol

11. Yes….get rid of the stupid negative multiplier! People have been downvoting like crazy the last month or so for no other reason then thinking it helps their own moon count.

Shit posts and comments will still get downvoted but it should also result in people voicing opinions that go against this subreddit without fear of getting downvoted into absolute oblivion and losing out on moons for doing what reddit is designed for. Discussion!

See and right on queue 🤦‍♂️

12. Anything to diminish the echo chamber effect in here.

I approve.

13. I agree that negative comments should could as zero, but why does the OP assume that the mods don’t want the sub to be an echo chamber? Given how almost every sub ends up rewarding people who promote the orthodoxy (perhaps because this helps a community form or for people to become engaged), then it wouldn’t surprise me if magnifying the negative karma/moon impact of controversial comments is intentional.

14. How are deleted comments treated?

15. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

16. Low effort content gets downvoted anyways, this will entice people to share controversial or unpopular opinions without the fear of losing out on moons, I support this change

17. As this proposal is to do with Reddit votes, and as it’ll probably get a lot of visibility, I’d like to remind everyone that downvoting, or refusing to vote on other people’s content in some weird attempt to earn yourself more moons is almost physically impossible to do enough to earn a worthwhile amount more moons.

I did the calculation a few distributions ago, but if you earned max karma in a round and wanted just **TEN** more Moons, you’d have to downvote other users more than 20,000 times.

###Please use the upvote and downvote as intended. Upvote good, worthwhile and interesting content, downvote irrelevant content, people being jerks and spam. With that in mind, you can make the sub a much more enjoyable place to be and it won’t cost you (virtually) any more moons to do so. Thank you.

18. Bearish for downvote bots. I support!

19. I think this is a good step

20. Damn I thought they just counted as 0, I gotta stop trolling

21. Actually a good idea!

Sometimes it’s a worry you’ll get downvoted into oblivion just for disagreeing with someone’s opinion and it’s been shown that it only takes a few downvotes/upvotes to create a chain of up/downvotes

We don’t want to become a complete echo chamber for only a select few opinions and this can help diversify our discussions!

It might help with engagement on some controversial posts and bring lurkers into discussions helping the sub grow

22. Is there a vote threshold to have a change like this passed?

23. I accidentally voted the wrong way 🙁

24. We need oposite opinions in order to have a debate.

25. So… make karma-whoring more lucrative again?

Karma whores will now need 2 downvoted posts to equal out a positive post… bad idea. (If we assume no voting bots and a uniform vote distiribution)

Moons are really destroying this sub.

26. This is a no brainer to me.

27. I feel like such a high multiplier scares people into never saying anything negative in fear of losing out on moons. This should be a place of discussion, not an echo chamber.

28. Wow I thought that negative karma was equivalent to 0 earned for that month, not negative and certainly not 2x negative. This is an easy vote to pass this imo.

29. That was an easy vote

30. I personally like the idea. Sometimes I feel people just jump on whatever is popular chasing moons. By eliminating the fear I think people might actually be more honest in their post. Who knows though this is Reddt!!

31. Wow, I had no idea that was even a thing

32. Sure, I think this actually a fair change. Well written post also.

33. Never knew this, i support the change

34. Easy yes from me.

35. No change. I checked the post mentioned by op where the question is asked on whether negative karma comments get the 2x and there is no answer from a mod confirming or denying, only saying the admins will have to be consulted, but another user confirms they do and op thanks them.
I’ve seen some comments with valid points get downvoted. Negative karma should not add or substract moons, they should just be taken as 0.
I agree with removing the 2x if that’s how is working, but do not agree with the proposed alternative.

36. This one is a no-brainer; Removing the 2x multiplier is the way to go to promote more and better posts/comments without being overly penalized for unpopular opinions.

37. Do we even have proof this is the case? How did you figure out negative comments are multiplied?

38. Can we have zero negative karma so there are no monetary penalization for voicing out controversal opinions? We must encourage more differing opinions otherwise this sub just becomes more of an echo chamber than is already is.

39. Great post.

40. why can’t I vote? It doesn’t let me click

edit: ok nvm, figured it out